PegaWorld iNspire 2024: Wells Fargo Streamlines the Estate Settlement Process for its Customers

I guess we're going to get started now. So, uh, a little bit awkward here with this microphone, but, um, I wanted to go ahead and introduce our speaker, Sangeeta Das from Wells Fargo. Um, leads a very innovative group. And we're going to hear about the estate care center and how Sangeeta and her team leverage Pega to provide great service to customers at a very sensitive time in their relationship with the bank. So, Sangeeta, thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Chris. Hi, everyone.

Good afternoon. I think I'm the speaker before the cocktail hour starts, so hopefully, um, I will put you all to sleep, but, um, I appreciate you all being here today. And as Chris mentioned, my name is Sangeeta Das, and I'm the head of the estate care center at Wells Fargo. I've been with the company for 35 years, and this was a new group that we stood up a few years back. And I'm going to share a little bit about the background, a little bit about the company and what we do for our clients. So I'll give you a brief overview of the bank and why this moment really matters in people's lives. It's a very difficult time. We try to give the gift of giving by providing full support to help them settle their estate. I'll share a little bit about who we are and what we do, and then how Pega automation helps us throughout the workflow and the process.

And the keynote today they talked about Pega being that workflow and case management tool, and that really comes to life in the work that we're doing, and then we're still evolving. So we have lots of good ideas and more things that we want to do. And then we'll leave about 15 minutes at the end for Q&A so that you can ask any questions that you may have. You'll see. Wells Fargo is actually the fourth largest bank in the United States, and we have about 4000 branches. And those are our our bank branches. We also have advisor locations and mortgage offices as well. Um, we do about 1.9 trillion assets. And you'll see that we make some profit there.

So. So why the estate care? Let me give you a little bit of background about in 2018, the operating committee of Wells Fargo decided that it was time for us to improve this experience. When somebody passes away, we have about a little over half a million clients that pass away each year, and my team is over 800 people globally, and we really help the family settle the estate and help advise them throughout the process of what they're going to need to do. And we knew that this was important for us to focus on as a the company, because we do know that this is the moment of truth for people in their lives. They're grieving. Many times people have lost their spouse that they've been married to for 50, 60 years, maybe didn't even deal with the financial situation in their household. And so we're here to really help them through that. And we do know that by improving this experience at this time of their lives, it really does drive meaningful lifetime value through being able to retain assets, bringing in more balances over to the company as well as a broader product line.

So the team really does focus on trying to do asset retention and finding ways that we can correlate our service and offerings to being able to keep money with the bank, but also bring in money if we deliver really good service to them as well. Sometimes this is our first interaction with Wells Fargo ever is at this moment. So. We also do know that wealth and age are correlated. Most people accumulate wealth as they get older. And we do know that, especially on the investment side, on the brokerage side, we do have a strong correlation between wealth and the age of those clients. Your more traditional broker dealer clients tend to be older. They're not as much as self service and wanting to place their own trades and things like that. So on average, there's about there are about 68 years of age.

And we still do know that age and death are directly correlated with one another. So there's a good opportunity. We have about 11 million clients who are over the age of 60. And so we have an opportunity for us to know that, um, those are the clients that we have, like a future customer of ours or their families will be. So trying to get to the ability to understand what they want to do and how we can assist them before that end of life is also important. So if you have been through a state process, it's not easy. It's a highly complicated, very paper driven process and it's cumbersome. There's terminology that people normally don't know or haven't heard. When you talk about needing to go to probate or who's the named executor.

All of these terms, people deal with this maybe once or twice at the most in their lifetime. And so for our ability to be able to help facilitate that and simplify it as much as possible, that is our goal. You'll see that a lot of times our clients don't even know where to start. Um, they come in, you know, they might call they might, um, walk in a branch. We have an online portal. They could report the death, but then after reporting the death, they oftentimes don't even know. What do I need to do next? So the team helps them. About half of our team is on the phones.

And so they're talking directly to the clients. Or we'll talk to the financial advisor or the branch bankers to help advise them through the process of what they need to do to also be able to assist their client, or we'll work with the client directly as well. But it's not easy. In every state in the United States has a different law, and those laws differ by the balances of the account, how the accounts are titled, the type of product that they have. And so we help them based on the state of residence of the decedent, what they need to do to be able to settle every product that they have with us. And I'll talk about all the products that we cover with the company, but you'll see that, um, it's complicated. Customers often say it's too cumbersome. I have to fill out all this paperwork. I just want to get my money.

I want the house, you know, whatever that might look like. And it's not always just as straightforward as that. So we're really there to help. It's a free service that we offer. So it is not a fee, um, service. It's just a free service as a courtesy to our clients. Okay, so let me tell you a little bit about this daycare center. If you go to Wellsfargo.com, we actually have presence out on the on the website. This allows our clients not only to get checklists of things that they should be thinking about doing.

They can notify us of death. They could upload their documents that they have from the courts, um, whatever that needs to be. They have that ability. It provides them with our phone number, our hours, and then we'll help facilitate them actually through the end to end support for the executors, the beneficiary, the representatives of the estate, to make sure we can help walk them through each one of those types of things. We do handle all products within Wells Fargo, so it used to be in the past, if you had a checking account and a mortgage account and a credit card, you would have to have a death certificate for every product, and you would have to go and call each product separately in order to be able to let Wells Fargo know by that product that someone's passed away. So now I'm using Pega. We actually have a case management system. We take the documents once and we determine based on each account, which accounts need those documents that we can attach to settle them, so that the client doesn't have to reproduce the same documents over and over again. The other great benefit that we have with Pega is we take very detailed notes for the case, so people don't have to repeat their story when they call us.

It's usually not a first time resolution call because it takes some time. Some of the most complex states could take 12 to 18 months. Sometimes, if you have lots of products and homes and valuables that need to be sold. So we really are there to make sure the client doesn't have to tell their story over and over. And we can just pick up right where we left off the last time, and you'll see that we do have lots of compliance because we service every product. So we do have pretty much every major requirement that could be out there. It almost applies to us in the estate care center. And so from that perspective, um, we also make sure that through the application that we're in compliance with all of the laws and the firm's policies. Um, and then you'll see that we again, as I mentioned, we facilitate that with them.

Um, they could get a different agent when they call each time. But because of the case system, the we just know exactly what's next that needs to happen with that client to keep them from having to repeat the story. Um, it's a little bit of a slide, but I'll try to walk you through, um, there's lots of steps that go along with mistake care, but I would say on the left, you'll see from a journey perspective these are a sampling of the products. Right. Because just in deposits you can have a checking account a savings account and a CD. So there could be multiple products within these buckets. However, you'll see we do everything from deposit safe deposit boxes, your investment accounts, your retirement accounts, your mortgage accounts, your credit cards, your personal loans and lines. Auto small business student loans. So my team does all of them.

Um, and so, um, you have to imagine we actually all of those products tend to sit on different systems of records. And so the team does have to do some swivel chair. And that's where we're really working with Pega to see how we could build that automation in so that they don't have to go to the green screens, um, every time. And so we have a lot that we've done in this space. And then you'll see, um, the, the first thing we do is we have to process that death notification. We used to think when they sold me this job, they told me there were about 250,000 clients who passed away each year. And it's more than double that, actually. So, um, so anyway, so, um, but by capturing deceased notification and saying all those notifications in the company need to come through the estate care center, we're actually able to capture all of those and make sure that we also do what we call as a death validation, because we need to make sure that it's a real death and that we don't report somebody deceased in error, especially to credit bureau or other things that could have negative impact. Believe me, sometimes it has happened where a client gets marked deceased in error, but it's small.

When it happens, it's painful. Um, so we want to make sure that we validate that death before we take certain actions. Um, so we'll suspend things, for example, their credit card, until we validate that they're truly deceased so that if they're not deceased, we could just turn it right back on would be an example bill payment, online banking, some of those types of things as well is really important that we make sure that they're validated and we can validate through different sources. A death certificate is the best way, but if not, we have vendor products and other things that we do to try to verify that. And then we do process probably half of our notifications, 30 to 40% actually come through the federal government, the Master Death file or the Treasury benefits. When someone passes, the government wants to right away make sure that they're not paying still to the decedent. So we get a daily file from the Treasury that's about 1200 notifications a day, is what we tend to get. And so we have a team that needs to get those processed within a 24 hour SLA. And then you'll see that one of the things that we have to do is make sure that we are talking to the person who's authorized to represent the estate.

So two different things. Sometimes someone who's calling you could be a neighbor, or it could be anyone that's just reporting that death. But that doesn't mean that they're authorized to get any of the information on the account. And I'll talk a little bit more about that here. We also because we do home lending, we do through the Respa and the CFPB. We have a successor in interest. Anybody in the home lending world. You can keep living in the house paying the mortgage. But the minute that you need to either refinance or it goes into default or something, you can't do anything on that mortgage without being confirmed as a successor in interest.

And so the team does that. They read all the wills and all the trust, and all of this is probably one of the most paper heavy processes that's out there. And then we have to maintain all of the accounts. So that might be removing the decedent from the account, changing the primary tax responsible person on a deposit account. So whatever that maintenance is we help them through all of that. And then you'll see that we disposition those in those systems that we need to do, and then we help do the beneficiary payoffs. We pay out billions and billions of dollars a year in order to be able to help the families. And so this is, as I mentioned, asset retention. We know that if we could give a really good experience, that the chances for them to keep those monies with the firm are much higher.

We have customers who tell us they never thought my son's mortgage servicing company would have been so caring and so empathetic. I never even thought of banking with Wells Fargo. But now I'm going to bring all my relationships there. So we get stories like that all the time. All right, let me talk about Pega and how it enables us, because we have clients who have multiple products with us, and each of those products really live in a vertical silo. Pega helps us to build a customer centric view. So we actually can take a horizontal view of that customer and every product and service that they may have had with us. I think you guys all know Wells Fargo is pretty good at cross-selling, and so we have clients that have quite a few products with us, real, real cross-selling. So, um, so with that, um, the SEC application does help us to look at the customer level and then pulls in every product and service that's under there.

Um, and so we'll demonstrate how we do that. But you'll see that it gives us a parent case. The parent case is at the customer level. Um, and that ties into our Hogan our customer information system. And then it pulls in every product case that they may have. And then once we collect the documents one time at the customer level, at the parent level, we could then apply each document based on which account needs that document for us to settle or take the next steps related with that. Um, this is this has really been a game changer, just in the sense that, you know, it's already a heavy, paper intensive process, and the fact that they don't have to resubmit those documents over and over again. Um, it's also, I think what I think is really nice about it is we're able to guide them based on which account, what what we're going to do or what we need in order to do that. And so again, we collect that one time.

And our online portal that we have allows you to upload the documents there as well. So if people want to self-service and do it that way, they can. And if it's the first time they're notifying us of death, it automatically creates a Pega case for us. And then any time they submit additional documents, it will attach it to that same case. So. And then there's still always the good old way to fax documents or snail mail or any of those types of things are also still options that are out there. And as you can imagine, many, many clients at this point. They do want an in-person interaction, so a lot of times they do visit the branches or go to their financial advisor. And then we help facilitate with the banker or with the advisor or client associate so that we can help them get the documents prepared properly.

Okay. So as I mentioned Pega, we automate the case opening. And so anytime we get death notification, we get them from a variety of sources. I told you we get that federal Treasury files. We have a vendor feed that scrubs our portfolio. We get verbal notices. We get the yellow sticker on a deceased male, you know, on the return mail. So there could be multiple ways that we receive deceased notification. But every time we do that, we ensure that we have a case open again at that customer level, and then we integrate that with our system.

And that allows us to make sure that all the systems of records are updated with the proper information that they need so that they reflect before the estate care center existed. There's a lot of mismatch in the data. Let's just say that. So since the estate care center has been there, though, it really has made a huge difference for us to make sure we also have data integrity that goes in there. And then you'll see that that is an automated process. Anytime we get that death notification, it automates the process to make sure everything stays in sync. All right. This is probably one of the harder things that we do. The authentication is normal.

That's just you say who you are. And you know we collect certain levels of information, authenticate. But it's really when it comes to the authorization of the estate representative, that that's really where the skill set comes in of of our team members and our plays. They all go through empathy training there. We really do emphasize that. And the nice thing is, is by having the right workflow, it allows them to be able to show that care on the phone with the agent to help them. Um, the authorization could be difficult because, uh, you know, people say, no, I'm sure my parents left me as the beneficiary or, you know, I have the will here, and I'm named on it, you know, so all of these types of things. But that doesn't just mean that you could talk to them and give them the information. So we advise them that if they have to go to court an open probate.

And what does that mean and what does that look like? And so, um, we do do that. Um, we also have probably one of the biggest misnomers is a lot of power of attorneys. They don't realize that their powers end at death. And so that one's a hard one because they're saying, wait, no, no, no, I'm I'm on the power of attorney. We set this up for this very purpose, but that doesn't give them the right if they're not also the payable on death beneficiary. So we make sure that we have to do that. Sometimes it's a little bit of a tough conversation because we know they're just trying to do the right thing. Um, and then we also have fraud.

We have a lot of fraud that happens in this space, unfortunately. Um, and so the team does look for that in our space. We look for suspicious transactions that may have taken place. Um, we actually have reporting if people open new products after we know somebody's dead, so that we can make sure that we can flag those and report those into fraud and claims. Um, so again, a lot of things that we do here, um, again, as we mentioned, we have we're kind of an omnichannel. We'll take documents from a variety of different places based on how they want to handle that. Um, the online portal, um is getting more traction, but it's probably an area that we want to do more emphasis on. People normally are making an appointment when they when they need help because they don't really know where to start. Okay, as I mentioned, we do a lot of maintenance because of all the products that we service.

So we need to make sure that we could do the maintenance. But Pega also helps us with a lot of maintenance. So we have automation that's built in. I mentioned some of those rules, like we'll have things at notification that we take action on to like put a restraint on the account and to suspend credit cards from being used. Um, and so we do all of that through automation so that we don't have somebody who has to go there and really figure out, okay, what do I need to do with this product and this product and this product? So a lot of smart automation that's built into there to help protect the accounts. The number one thing we want to do when we get that notification is protect the account and preserve the balances. So that's our goal and the automation assist us with that. And then we actually have other processes that we do work assignments with, because not one person knows every product of the company as an agent.

So based on the products that they have, it does do the work assignment out. So if there was a mortgage, then my mortgage successor and interest team will get that case for them to be able to assist. If there's an IRA, then the IRA team will know that we need to look and help the beneficiaries with their claim. So we'll go through all of that. And then you can imagine, as I mentioned, our highest volume is with the government. But this ensures that we stop any federal benefits from posting in the future, and that we limit our liability as it relates to what we become liable for. And then as we because we do loans, we do do collections. So if debt is owed to Wells Fargo, we do do collections. We file creditors claims.

We do soft collections with the with the family member making sure that they know that the debt's not their responsibility. Um, so we do, um, help with all of that and make sure that all of those things get taken care of. I do have a special team that all they do is research and escalations. And the reason for this is, um, a lot of times people set their things up many years ago. We have customers that have been customers with us for 40 years, let's say. Um, and so when they set things up, it may not have gotten set up properly, maybe at the branch level or wasn't set up as they intended. And so my research and escalation team really comes in to try to assist and figure out what was the decedent really trying to do here and what was the intent, because obviously we can't ask them. So we're trying to do that. Uh, one of the things that, um, you know, we would often find was that the power of attorney would name themselves as the beneficiary on the account.

Um, and so we've changed this process actually, because of that, we would say you don't have the authority to do that. Um, and we've kind of gone through legal and other channels and said, well, but if the client was living when they named the Po, they're giving them the transaction authority, not reading the fine print, that that wasn't an authority that they had to do. Um, and so we would have situations in the past where they would name themselves and then two others, like their siblings and the siblings could get the money, but they couldn't because they didn't have the authority to name themselves. And so, um, we've kind of through the research and escalation teams, we find these pain points and we try to then find solutions to see, can we look at this or think about doing this differently so that we could really help the family with what we think the decedent probably intended for that. Um, and then, um, as you can see, we do have um, one of the things that we do is we have high priority notes and flags within our system, within the Pega application. And this is really important because if we have litigation or legal opinion on something or we're doing some research, our agents will know that immediately so that they could do that. We have stop fraud. We have fraud that happens. So I think our biggest fraud was $2 million that we that we stopped.

But we do have fraud. And so we need to also make sure that when we think that there was either elder financial abuse or other things that were suspicious going on, that the agent on the phone has full visibility to that so that we can make sure that they're aware of what's happening. And then throughout our process, we have a lot of quality, quality control that we do. And so we have a variety of quality workflows that we have so that we can make sure that when we have distribution of the assets, we have most of the time a force, I check on it so you know, the processor and then they get a secondary reviewer, um, so that they could look at it and make sure that we are paying the person who should be paying the right amount. Um, and if you can imagine if there's multiple beneficiaries listed on an account, they don't all come in on the same day, or they don't all go to the same branch or live in the same place. So we need to make sure that through our payment application, we're able to know who we paid, how much we paid, who was the beneficiary, collect their information, and make sure that if we need a new W-9 or W8, that we get that because they then become tax responsible. If there was interest that was earned, that got distributed. Um, so this really allows us through automation to make sure that that secondary review and quality check happens before we distribute the funds. And so we're still evolving.

We have lots of things on our list that we talk to our Pega team about regularly, but there's lots of still opportunity for more automation. We don't have automation with all the systems of records yet, and so we are working on those options. Or we learned about mashup recently. So there's other things that we're trying to do to get more automation and more product integrations. Because as you can imagine, because we service every product, we're almost like a mini Wells Fargo, but at the end of life. So, um, so we need to make sure that we have those integrations. And then the documents that are required are highly complicated. As I mentioned, dollar amount matters, the state matters, all sorts of things. Product matters.

And so we're working on a docs rule engine to be able to help the agents, um, instead of having to interpret very highly complex matrixes around what, what do we need to tell them? They need the Doc rule engine will actually feed that information to the agents to be able to then communicate it to the client, and then we continue to make enhancements to our portal. We are working on external portal and making more enhancements to that, based on feedback that we received around making it easier for the self-service. For those that want to self-service, including them being able to see their status, or if we're still waiting for a document, they know we're still waiting for that document. So things like that. And then also internal portal to be able to assist our frontline bankers and financial advisors for them to make it easier for them to communicate with the estate care center as well. And so I'm going to take questions now. There's microphones here. If we've asked if you have a question if you can please come to the mic.

So the rest of the team or group here can hear you. Any questions. What a bang! Amazing what a presentation as well. That's really cool. Thank you. Um, can I just ask, uh, like, have you put much thought into, um, the opportunity to. I mean, nobody can preempt death, but like you say, there's a correlation between age and death, right? Yes.

Um, and I don't know what the percentage of named, um, what do you call them? The beneficiaries. Beneficiaries? But, um, you know, are you thinking about nudging people to name more beneficiaries? Yes. That's something you could build into the workflow. Yes. No, absolutely. In fact, um, what we would like to do, and we already have this on the list, is we can see if there are soul owned account or soul owned trust, um, and or sole proprietorship even.

And they have, you know, no one named as the beneficiary or even sole proprietors. They don't realize, like an authorized signer doesn't have access once you're deceased. Um, credit cards the same on the authorized user. So what we're wanting to do is proactively prompt people that, you know, have you named a beneficiary or have you updated or reviewed your beneficiary information? And so we are working with the Strategy Digital team to see if there's ways, um, for them to not have to go into a branch or an advisor office to get at a beneficiary. That's another thing is like, we should be able to have that as an online service. Just like if you go to your retirement account, you could just go and update the beneficiary information. But we don't allow that or have that on the on the banking site with that. That's the simple and easy.

So yeah, that's one of the things that we're working on. Um, and then we're working with our advice and planning team on what we could do to do more estate planning. So we have a mobile app called Life Sync, and you could set retirement goals. Or if you have a goal to buy a home, what we're working on is saying we need to do an estate planning, and then that could be their digital vault as well. They could load their trust, they could name their beneficiaries, they could determine, you know, when do they when do they want their beneficiaries or who to see this information, at what point after death or prior. Um, they can also we want to have it, you know, they can name what their music is that they want at their service. Or if they have a recipe, they want to make sure it gets passed down, but an ability to be able to personalize it but give them their ability to put their end of life wishes out there as well. So. Great presentation.

Thank you. So you touched on the ability to view the customer banking relationship across lines of business across accounts profiles. Is that data aggregation performed in tool in Pega or is that something that's managed in internal tools. No, it's actually pulled into Pega. Um, we pull it into Pega. So as soon as we get that death notification, that case is open, it's going out to our Hogan system of record and pulling all of that in. And then if you're not a registered or, you know, like for to do broker dealer, you have limited information you can see. But then the broker dealer side, they could see more details of that information because they are a registered user. So thank you.

Yep. Great presentation. Thank you. Um, you've watched a lot of Pega GenAI stuff today. How do you think estate care can benefit from Pega GenAI stuff? Yeah, we can use it all. Um, I would say, um, the, the, um, knowledge and the Coach that absolutely to be able to help the agents, they have a lot of procedures you can imagine. So to be able to take our set of procedures and help guide them with that. There's also the process.

I mean, it can help a client too, because a lot of times the client doesn't know where to start. So if they can get that knowledge base and go to our Wellsfargo.com portal and get some information, that would be helpful. The other thing that would be really is helpful is the AI that prompts you of ask having the agent ask what's next? And that will allow us to really provide and listen and provide the care instead of them trying to figure out, okay, what procedure do I need to get to next? Or what questions should I be asking next? Um, our team, because of the number of they have to have three monitors in order to be able to take one phone call. So because they have that much information that they need to have available to them. And so anything that can assist them with that and the prompts and navigating those procedures It all from an AI perspective can happen. We tried AI years ago and they said, we can't do you.

It's too hard. So we'll see. I think the technology's advanced quite a bit now, but, uh, we had an enterprise virtual assistant. Her name was Eva, and we broke her. So, uh, so, um, so we're back at it again. We're going to go back at it again. So. Safe deposit box broker. Really?

Because that's like the worst product that you can own. So. Can you throw some information on the document processing on the initiation to the mid of the case so that how is Pega enabled the document process in this? You're asking me a technical question. Probably. So, um, okay. So um, the way that we have it built is um, as soon as you go to our Wellsfargo.com site, you could notify us of death and upload the death certificate or notify us of the documents, and it's checking in the background to see if we already have a case open for that client, and if not, it will open a case and then the system will take the documents. And I should ask my technology team here right now to explain this, but I'll take the documents and it'll attach it to that case. And so and then we provide them a case number so that they have that for reference.

Go ahead. Come on Rajesh save me. So that's what one of the questions that we're going to ask. Right. So when we use an internal portals to, uh, take facts and in other channels to collect the documents, the second that is a public site that we recently launched, that where customers can upload all the documents using the public site, they don't need to visit the bank. They can upload all the required documents and which will be Integrated to the same case that is being generated in case if there is no cases being generated based on the notification given by the customer. The case will be generated and tagged to these documents again so customer can sit at home. The loved ones can sit at home, they can still do the process. And you don't actually have to be a customer with the online credential to use our public site.

You could we we have a way to authenticate you through SMS and your cell phone and make sure that you are who you say you are. And so you could be like a Non-customer without a Wells Fargo login credential, but still have ability to be able to self-serve and utilize the portal. Because many times, um, you know, the person who's handling the estate and it's not necessarily the customer, a customer of Wells Fargo. So thank you. Yes. You're welcome. Thank you. Rajesh. Any other questions.

Sir, I have one more for you. So you alluded to the kind of the great wealth transfer and the generational shift that's occurring. How do you envision Estate Care Center evolving, you know, to serve the next generation? You know, the preferences of the digital natives versus perhaps your 60 and over population today. Yeah, that's a great question. So we do know by the year 2030, um, the baby boomers will all be 65 years or older. So we do know that we actually are looking at a lot of data that we're already seeing because, um, the US is kind of shifting more to an Asian kind of culture, where it's more multifamily now than where it was an individual. And I'm independent. Um, and so we're seeing that a lot of adult children are the ones that are helping their parents, um, in the US get ready and we actually see money that is leaving and getting consolidated prior to the death happening.

We can see that in the data. And it's oftentimes they're consolidating it where the adult child who's, you know, is doing their banking or investing or whatever to make it easier. Um, and so what we're working on with our advice and planning team and several others is really to say, how do we establish those relationships ahead of time with who we know the beneficiary is going to be, or who the family is going to be? That's helping? Um, you have to be we have to be careful because there's also elder financial abuse and other things like that that can come with that. But it's really like having that conversation with the client understanding, you know, where do you want these to go? And then us building that relationship with the other members so that they actually then know who the banker is or who the advisor is. Um, and that way we we truly do believe we actually have a fee for service for our high net worth clients where they want Wells Fargo to be their executor or their trustee. And in those ones, they know all the who's going to get everything right.

So they build all of those relationships ahead of time and their asset retention is so high. And then the other, the the children bring all their money over because of the fact that they're like, I want this kind of service for myself. And so yeah, so we're doing we're doing a lot of work in that. And because we see everything that could go wrong without planning. Um, so we're trying to help the company understand how do we back that up and help these families be successful at the end of life? Thank you. Yeah. Well, if there's no other questions, let's give Sangeeta and Wells a big round of applause. Thank you everyone.