PegaWorld iNspire 2024: NatWest Makes the Leap to Next-Best-Experiences

So yes. Let's go. I am Natalie Murray, I am decisioning delivery and product lead at Natwest. You can see from the photographs. I am also an aspiring world famous global superstar DJ. Um, and yay and music producer. Um. I am a full time mum to Alfie who is a very, very, very spoiled rough collie. Stuart, my husband, also very spoiled.

Um, and some pictures at the bottom there of some of my team. So I've been in Decisioning Lead since 2016, and today I was honored to see Jess On the main stage. I was Jess's project manager at Natwest back in the day when we started this journey, so it's been a long one and a successful road for all of us, so it's great to see that. I have been in data and analytics for over 13 years. My background is actually technology change, so I don't really ask me anything about the data. Right? Um, like if you know how to connect systems, then I can talk to you about that kind of stuff. At Natwest, I'm responsible for the transformational change. So anything we want to put onto the platform that's new, um, the business change that's associated with that, to bring it to life in the operations, um, and the platform.

So the running of the platform and the support of the platform that's needed, that's my teams that do all that here to talk to you about our journey to customer centricity. Um, and I'm just one part of a big team at Natwest to do customer personalization. So Natwest, who are we? Quite a lot of bullets up there. Old bank. Very, very old bank. Almost 300 years old. I am hoping they need a DJ for that party when it's the 300th birthday party, because I will, I can, I can do it right. Um, side note I have been looking for a set of decks the whole time I've been here.

My USBs are in my bag, so please, if you find them today, just tell me. Um, but back to Natwest. Um, some people may recognize this as the Royal Bank of Scotland group. That was our former name. Royal Bank of Scotland is still one of our brands. So myself, as a customer based in Scotland, Royal Bank of Scotland is my brand. You may also recognize cuts. Um, Ulster Bank. They are um, some of our brands and as a group we're one of the big four in the UK.

We've got 19 million customers and we operate across private banking, personal banking, CNI, which is commercial and institutional banking. We are a purpose led organization. So if you go onto a website, you will see where purpose led. You will see that we CHAMPVA potential and we help our people, our families and businesses to thrive. And I'm pleased to tell everyone we do a lot of that through the decisioning capability that we have. Recently, we had a refresh to the bank's strategy, and personalization is now sitting at the heart of that. So for us in customer decisioning, it's really exciting because we are there and we're able to equip the business what it needs to get the job done. As my colleague Fiona Kirk, some of you may recognize Fiona from last year, I sent this slide to Fiona with last year's photograph on it, and she replied to say, please put my blond hair photograph in and not my dark hair. Um, I consider Fiona a friend.

Um, and that's one of the good things about the community of working here. Lots of people become friends through the time that you're working with them. And Fiona runs our operational team, so she runs the, um, decisioning within the organization. And I consider Fiona as one of my first customers when it comes to putting this capability in the hands of the business and therefore out to the customer base. We're doing some really, really good things at Natwest, um, some of the stats here. So we've got over 60% of our customer needs are influenced directly from a Pega message that we send to customers, and customer needs is a fancy way of talking about products. We have over 3.6 billion interactions every single year, and they are personalized to our customers. We have um, 37 touch points integrated to Pega across the organization, and that's split across the three brands. Sorry, the three franchises that we have, retail is the biggest.

So that has around about 17 of the 37. And the other two are split between the CSI franchise and the wealth franchise. This year, we're on track to add another two customer touch points, which will take us to 37. And really the the the areas that you can go into there doesn't seem to be any end to that. Even after all this time. We have over six and a half always on next best conversations that we can have with customers in the retail banking space alone. Um, and that's a mix of the actions and treatments. Um, I think we have around 2000 or so, uh, actions and then treatment combinations with them. We have around half of that 2000 actions actively using the adaptive models, and we're constantly growing that.

We do use some external models also. Um, and the decision of should we have adaptive on yes or no is then um on an individual basis. So as we're building the changes in every release, which you can see there, we're launching new actions every single week, um, roughly around 60 changes in every revision in retail. Currently, some of that, as I say, has adaptive on some of it doesn't. So let me take a breath. Thank you to Pete and Liz, who I have stolen this graphic from from a previous Congress. I spoke at last year. I think it summarizes the life cycle of customer engagement really, really well. Um, and it allows me to talk you all through what our journey has been over the last eight years to get to where we are now.

So the first step is preparing for once when customer engagement. When we started, it was referred to as decisioning. We then talk about engagement. We just spoke about decisioning. So we built the can't speak. We built the platform, the Pega platform, and we started to source the data that would be required to drive the capability. And we adopted an accelerated framework from one of our delivery partners. And that in itself was really successful for us because it gave us that fast start to getting out into our business, to start to talk to them about what decisioning is. Now, this is 2016, where it really started to come to life.

So all the preparation had gone in. Getting our foundations was the next thing for us to do. So we connected our first channels in retail banking and those were um, effectively a migration. So we previously used Chordiant decision manager, um, in the sorry, in the e-banking and the branch and telephony estate. And I can see some faces in the room that were there as part of that journey. Um, when we, when we first connected and I think it was, uh, October 2016 that we put branch and telephony live, um, and it was like, right, okay, we're now on this new platform. What are we going to do with it? So data, of course, is what we really need to make this a success. So we built up a new batch data store.

Um, and we recognize there was a need for us not only to get golden source data, but also to have, um, I refer to it as like analytically derived data. So there's someone somewhere is doing something and then has an input like a CSV file that needs to be used in Pega. So that could be loaded. So we created a manual, um, data capability for loading, uh, into Pega. If we move through the kind of the year just before, uh, the Covid pandemic hit us all, um, we had started our expansion. So we were seeing success in the channels. We had connected for retail. We connected up mobile, um, as the mobile app into decisioning, which was the first channel that had decisioning that didn't have something before. So Ibanking had chordiant before branch telephony had chordiant before.

So they were kind of familiar with what this is. But then mobile came along and it was completely new. The success of mobile allowed us to then showcase what could be done for commercial and wealth, and we moved into commercial and wealth in this period. So this is us now in stage three, where we're starting to optimize what it is we're doing. We are adding more and more touch points throughout this journey as we go. So we're scaling up, um, in all three franchises at this point in time, all working from home. Um, because you know the world, right? So we recognized during this period that we could do better with having more real time data. So we're all making we're already making real time decisions, but we're doing it with batch data.

That's maybe about 2 or 3 days old. So um, streaming streaming capability. So we start to look at how can we stream data and use that within decisioning. That was successful for us. We, um, connected up to, uh, Adobe initially for streaming data. So clickstream data, um, we have a transaction categorization platform that was being built at the same time, and we use that. I've got an example of that to show you actually today. Um, but as we get to this point where we've got all three of our franchisees using the capability, we've expanded into many, many, many touch points. We're starting to look at new ways to connect data.

We're realizing that our businesses all have diverging needs, and it's becoming a bit of a beast. So we're working in spreadsheets to determine what the rules are, what the actions and treatments are. It just was becoming too much. And in that time, Pega themselves had moved on with the capability of CDH and were able to talk to us about NBA. Design a framework. Talk to us about 1 to 1 operations manager. Um, and we made the bold and brave choice of saying, let's do it. Let's have a program of simplification that takes us to the standard framework Mark and takes us to running their operation inside of Pega, using the user interface of 1 to 1. Ops manager I was going to say I was lucky enough to be the program manager for this.

At times it didn't feel lucky. Um, at times it felt like an absolute hospital pass. Um. But it was ultimately successful. And not to do anything by half. It wasn't just a simple IT project of migrating data. It wasn't a simple business change of let's get everyone using a new tool. It was a full program of replatform. So we replatform to our enterprise cloud platform, which is an internally hosted cloud.

We re-engineered the entire framework away from the accelerator to NBA designer. All three of our franchise operational teams, we retrain them to use 1 to 1 ops manager. We rebuilt all of the. At the time there was 6000 action and treatment combinations and we had to rebuild all of those. Um, we were I guess we were a bit sensible with it and said, actually, let's look at it and see, do we need all 6000 for day one? The answer is no. Some of them went in the bin, some of them we took as is and some of them we changed and we built forward on them. But that was the step where we felt that we were in a place where we were now modern. So we had the modern decision in application.

We had the modern way of using the decision and application. Um, and we had this data streaming capability that was in and we were using more and more and more of that. But even with that, we're not where we need to be or where we want to be. So this is a bit about what's next. So Pega Infinity, He was very shiny, very new, and very much something that we want to get. So we are currently running a pilot to, uh, move some of our outbound communications to Pega Cloud, and we'll use that as a test case to build a business case to move the full estate across, hopefully within the next nine months. We recognize that our customers are customers of our franchisees, of our brands, but they're also customers of our group. So some of our customers will have a personal relationship with us, but they will also have a business relationship with us, and we want to have a win bank data capability that allows us to recognize if a customer's business, for example, is having difficulty, they may not be able to pay their mortgage in the retail space. So we want to be able to see that so that we've got that show of empathy towards our customers, and we can actually help to drive them towards the right place for where they need to be.

We also want to adopt all the cool things. So yesterday afternoon I spent pretty much all afternoon in the Innovation Hub. Um, some of what we do is still stuck back in 2016, arguably still stuck back in probably 1996. Um, so we need to adopt things like deployment manager. We need to be looking at the DevOps capability. So someone who is responsible for Platform, that's where my plans are for the team as we move forward and we get to this Pega Cloud we also, um, because of the streaming capability, we also see ourselves as producers of data that's valuable to the wider organization. So we use data from a range of sources like Adobe, for example. But actually the fact that we have interaction data for customers, we recognize that that could be useful. An example use case that we have is our commercial and institutional relationship managers.

Every week we send them here are your next best actions for your customers. But in the time we've evolved through this life cycle, those same customers are interacting with us digitally. So they may see you on Monday that they have a commercial mortgage opportunity with one of the customers, so they'll schedule a meeting for Wednesday. Customer logs into the app on Tuesday sees the commercial mortgage offer and says, no, thank you. So when the Adam follows up, there's a bit of a I already told you this. Why don't you know this already? So we've got use cases that we don't need a decision to tell the. Mm. But what we do need is a view of what's the interaction history your customers have had with us through other channels.

So we can see ourselves as producers of data that are going to be used by other, um, areas for good. And I'm just going back to that bank strategy. So we have a scaling customer Engagement is something we want to do. We want to get to 50 million positive interactions with our customers every single year. And we want to do that through personalization. But we also want to be, I guess, good corporate citizens. And we want to be federating out the use of the decisioning capability to the wider organization. And some of those additional features we think is going to be invaluable to people like our marketing teams and our digital journey teams, so they can see truly what the power of Pega is doing underneath, because all they see sometimes is it's just a black box that sits within data and analytics. So we are probably all familiar with this type of slides, but for us it's just a bit more of what we have.

So we've got three franchisees, 37 touchpoints over 6500. Next best actions for 17 million customers. I think it might be 19. But what does it look like? Right. So to bring it to life a little bit This is an example of what our customer sees in the mobile app. Um, the first view that you have there is what we refer to as our footer. Um, and in this example, you can see them, uh, being targeted with a message around a specific credit card product. Um, it's referencing in there what the API is.

And we know that as a personalized token for our customers through data that we receive from our credit risk teams. The next one, um, this for me is probably the standout in the last eight years of where we really accelerated and uplifted our success. And this is where we introduced the Always on style offers. So what we have is a mobile app which customers can access product. And then we can, using data, determine what's the right message to give to customers to make that personalized experience. And if I click on the overdraft here, you can see there's a personalized message which calls out an overdraft increase is something that, as a customer, I am highly likely to be able to be approved for, and it tells me how much I would go up to in value. And also it mentions what the current overdraft is, what the Apr is, and then gives the customer the choice so the decisions back in the customer's hand at that point, for them to be able to go further, hit apply or actually find out more. Sometimes customers will say, actually, I didn't know I had a 500 pounds overdraft, so let me take that back down and they can then take the steps to manage their overdraft instead. It's probably quite small.

I don't know if you can read all the writing, but I think these slides are going to be made available after the event. So. Driven by data, this is not possible without us having data. Some of the conversations I've had this year and again last year at PegaWorld was around. How do you do it? How have you got all of those things to say to customers? And the answer is one. We've got the Pega capability that can power all that, but it's really only as good as the stuff that you're putting inside. So the data that we have, we've got over a thousand data attributes across a number of different categories.

But importantly, we source our data in different ways. So we've got the automated batch that I talked about as we went through our life cycle, as well as our semi-automated data loads and real time data. When I started in 2016, the word real time, sorry, the phrase real time data wasn't said. No one in the bank even knew what it was. Fast forward to now. It's all everyone's talking about. They're not interested in batch data. They're not interested in anything else unless it's real time and being streamed. So that for us is definitely going to be one of the growth areas.

We also use the data inside of Pega. So we are powered by adaptive and predictive models, and also that interaction history in the life cycle. The fifth stage of it is a continuous innovation. So what are we doing? How are we changing? We're using data insights, um, to engage with customers on a deeper level. We're also looking at actionable real time events. We have a customer data platform stood up, which is our CDP, and we also are looking at, I can't believe it's taken me 22 minutes to mention Jane AI. Probably a lot of people will say that a lot sooner in the presentation, but for us, probably like everyone else, we're dipping into that, um, very gently being a regulated industry.

So some of that data insights, how are we getting smarter with what we're doing in the data space to drive decision to deepen our customer engagements? So we have a transaction categorization engine, which we call Mimo. Um, and Mimo is taking all that transaction categorization, getting it understood. Understand what regular payments and then building insights off the back of it. Those insights are made available to Pega through real time streaming, and then a Customer Decision Hub can use that information to present to customers in one of our touch points, a message that's relevant to them. So we're really driving forward on that experience base and helping to promote financial well-being for customers. And some of the beauty behind what we've done over the years is the business buy into it. So people believe in what we do because we've had success and we've got evidence that supports it. So this example that I'm showing you here is a purpose built section of our app that is dedicated to customers financial well-being.

And in this example, we can see that a customer who has many, um, music subscriptions, that customer may or may not be me. Um, if I cancel just one of those music subscriptions, I can save 100 pounds a year. We've been nominated for a data IQ award for the work that we've done with our remote team, with our digital team, to bring this to life for customers. If anyone in the room is a NatWest Group customer, then if you are RBS or NatWest branded, you'll see it in the insights section of your app. But more on this. So this is the music subscription example. We also can see that customers spend a lot of money in Uber, and it's a carousel. So we can have up to five messages at any given time in here. Another one that's quite nice to talk to customers about is if they're spending money with charities, we can make them aware of how much money they've donated over X periods.

So it could be in the last month, could be in the last year, whatever we think is most relevant for them. And what it does is it takes customers into a journey so it gives some helpful hints and tips off the back of the message. In this example, it's about how could you reduce your household bills, which is very topical I guess, for everyone. So what is next? The future of our next best experience is at Natwest. So we've already done a lot in the digital space. And as I say, our customer journey teams are very much bought into what Pega can do for them and what customer decisioning capability really provides. We know that we are going to get the need for digital and self-service just continuing to grow. So we're partnered up with those digital journey managers and the areas of the business that own the platforms that provide this, and we then power that from data and analytics.

We're making sure we're making changes in the right places, like the real time streaming data, like using the insights data so that we can keep it personalized and relevant. We're also making sure that we're getting the feedback. So our our platform it connects to channels and it operates 24 over seven. But it also has a user community. So we have operational teams who use our system who sometimes tell us this doesn't work. This isn't great. 1:1 Ops manager. When we adopted that, it was pretty bad to begin with. We were early adopters.

There was stability issues, there were problems. But thanks to the feedback and the partnership that we have with Pega, we were able to overcome them. We've upgraded to 8.8. That's where we are currently. And yesterday I met Mario in the um, Innovation Hub. And I said, Mario, I'm not coming to your stand this year because you fixed it for us. It works. Now, we don't need to do all this extra stuff that we did before. And he was delighted.

So, um. Thank you. This is the power of bringing us together so we can have those conversations. Earlier today, I met another client at Pega who talked about using location data. Our research tells us that customers don't like it being creepy. No one does. So we're always conscious of the messaging we're putting in. Is it giving out the right, um, the right feeling to customers when we're trying to get them to engage? We know we're talking about advancements in data and martech.

We quite often get the challenge of should you use Pega or something else? Should you build it yourself? Should you do this? Should you do that? And I think that we're always we welcome that challenge and we welcome the conversation about it. And so far, every time we've had it, it's always come back to what we've got is the best at what it does. Um, as I say, no one was talking about real time data streaming in 2016 when I started, and now that's all they talk about. There will be things along the way that we'll find more and more people are talking about, and what we need to be sure is that we are ready to pivot in the right direction as our businesses and send us their needs. I mentioned earlier, we're in 37 touch points moving to 39 this year, and I have a backlog probably this length, and that could take us to well over 40, maybe even into 50.

So there's nothing I guess that's beyond the bounds of possibility and that engagement. So scaling and engagement we started, I think, with something like 70% product focused messaging to customers. And we've got a target by 2027 to get it to 80% engagement, 20% product. Because we value our customer engagement, our always on people enablement. So we want to make sure our people are keeping up to date. And I was really encouraged by some of the keynotes that I've seen about how we've got the GenAI capability being built into the learning, and that helps us to train our people. One of the best things that we did, we went to an ops manager, is put our people feeling like they're actually using Pega because before they were just working in spreadsheets and they were like, Pega what? Who? But actually now they're using 1 to 1 manager.

They're like, oh, I use Pega now. And it's like, yeah, you do. And so that's really important for us to stay ahead of that. And the next thing, um, that's a buzzword right. Adaptive hyper personalization. So you hear a lot about these things. But for us our North star is about being best at customer experience. We're a regulated industry. So of course we're going to have governance and compliance to contend with.

And we want to make sure that we're doing things in the right way at the right time. We have, um, the employees who use decision, as I've mentioned, we want to make sure that they remain, um, top of their game with it. And of course, people worry about the GenAI world that's upon us now. And how's that going to impact the jobs? And what I say to them is, as well. Would you not rather have the computer do the heavy lifting and you can do the more valuable stuff? So we're trying to figure out how that's going to impact on us going forward. And I'm almost done. You'll be pleased to know.

So key takeaways. Um, what I would say is the decisioning capability. It's an investment in the future for your organization. When I started I thought, six months, that'll be us. Move on to the next thing. Over eight years later, I'm still here and talking to you all about what we've done in that time. And it's quite therapeutic, actually, because you're like, oh, we've done a lot, but we've still not done enough. So for us it's about think big but start small. So get it out there, get it working, get it proven.

That's been our journey. It can be difficult. It will be hard. Um, but it is absolutely very rewarding, both as a user of the system, as a customer of the organization, and as someone who leads teams who deliver this change. It's a very rewarding career for our people. Everyone's learning every single day. I know it's cliche, but it's genuinely true. You do learn lots, every single day, and one of the things I would say is have a think about what is your story. So if you're starting out right now and this is something actually that we've kind of struggled with over the last few months ourselves as we move into the annual investment cycle, it's like, okay, well, what's your story for?

What's next? And you think, oh, we've been doing this for eight years and continually being funded. But with that we've had success. So for us, our stories about how do we grow it to be better and bigger, how do we do the data, how do we get the channel touchpoints? How do we get people more familiar with what Pega is, what it can do, and how they can use it? So we'll be looking at that Federation piece. Also, getting buy in for your key supporters is great, so bring them on and help them get them to help you to tell your story. And ultimately, um, this is how we've done it for us. But it doesn't mean that you have to do it in the exact same way.

So the technology is very flexible. No one needs to start, I guess, with the accelerator framework that we did. So everyone already has probably about A34 year head start on what we were doing. Um, so you can design it for how you want it. One size does not fit all. Um, and the last thing I'll say is use this community. So since I've started to come to some of these events, both here and back in Europe, um, there's so much resource and so much knowledge available that just helps with everything that we've got. So thank you. Hope that was okay for everyone.

If there's any questions, we can move on to them now. Thank you. Excellent presentation Natalie I love that. So I had one question for you. So you talked about having 6500 next best actions, which is by far the largest amount I've ever seen. Right. That is a lot like is that library? I guess my question about that is like what's the distribution there between the selling that like the sales types of actions and other types like do you guys think about that from that perspective? Yeah we do.

So we started it was about 70% product focus. So that would be sales sorry 70% for sales 30% to more service engagement type. We're now roughly about 60% is more engagement um with 40% in sales. And then as I said, we're looking to try and grow that engagement further to get to 80% with 20% product or sales focus. Oh that's awesome. How often do you prune Next Best Action? Is that something that happens a lot? Like, do you buy prune? I mean, like take them out of the library if you will.

Yeah. So I would say that we don't do it enough. Um, I think we should, but everyone, all they care about is let me get my new stuff in. Or can I change what? All. They're already there. Um, there is a forum. So when Fiona spoke last year, she talked about a forum that they have which within the operational team is called Improve or Remove. So the measurement and evaluation of the performance of those MBAs sits with each of the franchise teams.

And then they have a they have a meeting with the stakeholders to say if it's not working, get rid. So put it in the bin. And I'm just going to keep asking. So you guys got to stop me one way or the other. Okay. Rusty will sit me down. So I guess my question is the when you create new actions, do those tend to come from your business lines, or is the centralized team coming up with those and going to the business? Like, how does that work? Where's the the offers if you will?

Where do those get generated? Sure. So when we first started out, it was all on us to go out and tell the story and get people to buy in. And I loved Jess mentioning Happy Birthday today because Happy Birthday is the. She's been talking about happy birthday for ten years, like ten more than ten years. Okay. Um, and full disclosure, Pega wasn't great at working out what age customers were at the start, right? So thanks for improving that for us. But yeah, happy Birthday is just a simple one to do.

Um, so the ideas now are flowing more from the business teams into us. And we are at this point of trying to think we want to be more consultant led back into our businesses because we understand the technology better. But to do that, we don't have the tools just yet enabled within the functions. They're there in the product, like the simulation capabilities, etc. so for us, there's a bit of business transformation needed to get us to use them and then interpret the results and feed that back out to start that idea generation from us back. But it will always be a two way street. Okay. I have one more. I promise I'm done, I really do.

So you talked about the thousand data elements that you have, right? Like and obviously you've got an interaction history and that's got your roll ups of all of your who's seen what and been presented with what types of actions. What other kinds of data are you bringing in that you feel like adds a lot of value? Are there certain types or forms? Yes. So for the most part, those thousand attributes sit within our data store, which is our batch based data store. And they're predominantly static attributes where we're seeing the real values coming in that real time. So the insights that I've shown you with the let's reduce your music subscriptions, there's also with the CDP, if a customer starts a loan application as an example drops out, we get a real time event to say this has happened, and then we can make a decision to say, should we do anything about it, yes or no. And that could result in maybe a sending a push notification to the customer to say, hey, did you know that you were here?

Do you want to come back and finish that application? Oh that's fantastic. I'm done. But thank you very much. Thank you. Good presentation. Thank you. Hey, Natalie. Uh, Rusty Warner with Forrester.

And thank you. Great presentation. I've been talking to some of your colleagues since 2014, so it's great to see how everything's evolved. And I was pleased to see next best experiences in your in your title. Um, question though about all of those services oriented messages and those next best experiences which are focused more on the customer outcome and customer well-being, how are you measuring those and then how are you aligning that measurement with business metrics so that you can satisfy the people at the bank who are wanting to know what's it mean to our bottom line. So we we use, um, the data from Pega as part of that evaluation. But we, we marry that in with what's happened in the journey that goes beyond the decisioning platform. So we take customers through a product route. What's actually happened at the end of it.

So we're looking at what's the I guess like the funnel as you go through. So who have you spoken to, who's actually interacted with it and measuring that all through. So those regular reviews happen within our operational teams with those stakeholders. There's also elements of commercial planning who look at what does this mean for our organization. And over the years we've done some tests. So we ran some labs which said actually we started with telling pretty much telling Pega this is what's important. So up all the credit card stuff because the credit card guy says I need to make my targets, whereas we ran some experiments, see if we didn't tell her what to do. What would happen? And we got a better performance with that.

So within the operational teams, as much as we've got so many more tools for them to start to use, and what we do now is kind of satisfying the business need. But transformation head on thinking, how do we push that even further? So hopefully not only will we use the tools, but we'll make them available for them to use and operate daily. Great. Thank you. Hello. If I may have a question, my name is Thomas. I come from Poland. Uh, you've mentioned in the beginning about the network of branches which you have as a bank.

And I wanted to ask about this element meaning physical channels, because in digital it's pretty easy what comes from the engine. It's presented to clients and it's straightforward. But how how did the people in physical channels reacted to providing them with the next best experience. That should be given to a client. They had their own logic way of thinking. Sure. How did they react to that? So when it goes into the assisted channels, as we refer to them as branch, for example, um, the customer, um, the NBA for the customer is provided to the bank member of staff. So whether it be the person on the telephone or behind the teller desk, so they are always in overall control of the conversation they have with the customer.

So for them, um, they use that and the conversation with customers in a real time basis. So if you come here now and I'm the teller, as soon as I identify you as a customer, I would get the next best action for you and I can talk to you about it. We also have an outbound, um, capability where if, you know, maybe the branch is quiet one day or some members of the branch don't deal directly with customers who walk in instead their relationship with customers outside. Then they can call. So we have outbound call lists that we can go through and target customers with, but it's mostly in the engagement space. So it's about things like come in for an appointment so we can talk to you about your financial well-being and what can we do to help you? Um, it's not so much, you know, come and take a mortgage with us because we know that turn customers off. And if the customers have a bad experience in branch, then the people who are serving them in branch don't want to use the capability. So we've had to have that feedback loop with the users of the platform too.

Okay, excellent. I don't want to compete, but I have the next question. Uh, my question is regarding the product, because going through this journey, you come to clients with some offers. And I wanted to ask if like, part of this story was also working on the product palette, their features, flexibility and so on because it can be used in those types of, let's say, engines or way of operating. Right. Yeah. So we I guess we don't have anything formal stood up that says, here's what gets the best engagement from a product perspective. But we are very much seen as a communication channel for those product areas to then speak to customers about what is coming. Um, and we initially, um, we weren't considered as part of like the marketing strategy for, you know, maybe a new credit card, whereas now today it's always seen as, oh, actually, not just we can use the decision and capability to interact with customers about this new product.

There may be some ideas come up to say, actually, could we maybe get a new space in the app or in one of the other applications that is dedicated to that product that we can make decisions on as part of that product? So those conversations happen on a regular basis. Thank you. Thanks. How am I for time? I could stay here all day. Right? Just about there. Okay.

Right. One more. Great presentation. Um, what kind of frameworks have you put in place to allow your business to construct an idiot? The engagements that they have. And how have you enabled them to understand what's working so that they can continue and improve those engagements? So that predominantly sits within our operational teams. Um, which is my colleague Fiona could tell you lots more about that. Um, so I'll try and cover it at best.

So we've got the team. The setup of the team is structured in a way that it faces off into certain business areas. So each business area has a representation for the decisioning capability that they can work with on a regular basis. And the ideas depending on the channels. We have some channel principles to make sure that we are picking the right things to say in the right channels. Um, and we also have the measurement of it off the back end to say how successful has it been? Personally, I would love us to bring that measurement forward. So instead of getting an idea through a forum to say, is this it's a governance forum, say, is this worth progressing? And if yes, it goes forward, gets built, gets measured.

I would like it to be actually, before you do any of that, let's use the tooling that we have to make an assessment of. Is it worth doing so? Is there value in creating this new proposition? Is there value in maybe changing what already exists so that for us is something that's going to be transforming, and maybe we can talk to you about it next year. Thank you. Thanks. Okay. All right. Thanks, everybody, for your time.

Bye.