PegaWorld 2025: Pega Lights the Way Forward With Constellation in Hybrid and Low Code

PegaWorld 2025: Pega Lights the Way Forward with Constellation, Hybrid, and Low Code

My name is Johanna Sundberg and I'm the product owner of our Center of Excellence. Pega and I'm Stig Martinsson, usually called Mr. Pega at RBC million. So that's how involved I am in this and being from the start. So but we also have a crew with us here today. We have Nilesh, our chief architect. We also have Miguel who is head of the Pega Customer Service implementation. So one of our key players from from Center of Excellence. And we also have a lot of friends here. So we have Marco Duizer.

We have Camille, we have Dion from Pega that has helped us on this journey. Yeah. So do you want to kick it off, Steve? I kick it off. And great to be here again. It's been two years and it's happened a lot. So very happy to share our journey on what we have done since we were here the last time. And it's a little other story, actually. So. So what about the agency? I'll start with the boring stuff, and Johanna will take over with the fun stuff later.

Like how did we do it and all that kind of stuff. So yeah. So what we do at Merlin or the Swedish Public Employment Service, we are the third biggest public sector in Sweden, and we are doing all we can to get a well-functioning labor market happen in Sweden. And it's of course, it's a lot about getting the job seekers connected to the employers. That's the main mission. It's quite simple if you say it like that. But, you know, it's quite a tough mission bringing people with.

They don't have the education, they don't might not have the language to bring them in to the, the, the labor market, and also to help the employers looking for people with specific competence that we might not have in Sweden. So it's quite tough actually to to do that mission, but we do it with big grace, and we're very proud to have that mission as our priority. In Sweden right now. It's a lot about control. That's a new era for, for for our organization.

And and also looking at the politics in the labor market. It's a lot about controlling our job seekers. So the right people get the right help. And the the people who are not supposed to get the help will not get it. We also heard that from the keynotes. Well, the fraud and crime. Of course, we have a lot of that. We are shuffling a lot of money through our agency, out to two employers and job seekers. So we need to be really, really careful to get that kind of money.

So that is actually an area that we're expanding into and a little bit our organization. We are around 7000 caseworkers and around 1200 at the IT department. And we are embracing a digital first strategy. So that means that we try to to help all our customers in the digital channel. And if we cannot help them there, we we we, we give them our contact center. And if we cannot help them there, then you go to this personal caseworkers and our local offices. But it's kind of in that order.

We try to help our customers. So coming to Pega, our Pega journey, we started off late 2018 and Today. We actually SaaS 13 here, but yesterday we had a big launch. Two new core applications are now live. I checked it when I woke up this morning. How did it go? Have you done all the tests with other agencies and so forth? And it's all working smoothly. So we are very, very happy to stand here today. And yeah, having that with us, that goal. So so that that's really, really great.

And yeah, so we're running around 3 million cases annually and with Pega and we got also quite a big Pega RPA installation as well. 15 robots are running and we are over the top. We are around 55, 60% of all the cases in our core process now running in Pega. And it will increase like since yesterday we did two new applications. It will be new bump up in the volumes. So that's really, really great. We are running on prem. I know Pega you don't really like this. But we are. I just had to send it out there. But yeah, we're doing our best. So. And we are on Infinity 24 and we also have Customer Decision Hub. And now we're also moving into the Customer Service. And we're also very happy to have a big like own workforce. And we have around 110 members working in, I think 12 teams and around. It's a 70% here. But that was a little bit modest, but I think we're around 80% with our own staff. So of course we have partners with us and consultants, which is very good.

But we're very proud to have our own workforce to such a high degree at RBC million. And last but not least, Pega Constellation. That's the new big thing for us. So coming back to our challenge, why we even started to look in to Constellation. Being with Pega for around six and a half years now, and being very heavy on UIKit and also being very heavy on self.

What do you say? Autonomous teams that can decide and design their own workflows and their own user interface interfaces? To quite an extended degree, I would say. We can see that when a caseworker goes into Pega, it can. It sees, they can tell the different applications apart. You can always see what team has developed, what application, and it's not that good for the end users, of course, because then you get a little bit of a fragmented user experience. So we had that challenge.

We also see that we have quite it takes quite some time for us to do the process design. It's a lot of back and forth. We see stuff quite late on in the development process and then we have to back redo it and stuff like that. So also moving in to App Studio and of course Blueprint helps a lot. We will get back to that. We can also see that we have a little way to go. Also, using more of the out of the box functionality coming from Pega.

We have a tradition at RBC million to invent everything ourselves. So this is, you know, just looking into the box more and be more curious and, and really spend time on what's in there has been a challenge for us. Yeah. And and also we can see that we need to get the accessibility up to a much higher degree than we have today. So to sum it all up, we have a fragmented user interface and the process design takes too long. I would say that's the two main challenges for us.

That's led us into Constellation. So looking into the desired effects, what what do we want? Well, of course, this is just the other side of the coin of the challenge, right. So getting the UX pretty much up there. We want to be really high on the UX, and we want to have the same UI for all the applications, and we want to do this process design in a really short time.

We want to be more tightly with the business, showing them what it looks like to get the feedback early on before we start to move in the whole force to develop everything. So that's what we want. Getting more out of the box functionality and also of course, getting up the accessibility. So that's why we want Constellation. That's why we decided to move into Constellation. So moving over to you, Johanna, how did we do this? Well, we found all the problems. No no. No.

We took all our problems and then we deployed it into Blueprint. And out came. Yeah. Sort of. But what we started with, we I mean, I would say what the, what the solution became because we didn't know when we started. It became an implementation Constellation with we have. The first delivery we did was we have a Constellation portal with a hybrid model. So we rendered a UI kit, existing UI kit into the Constellation portal.

We found a group of users that had their own portal, so we could go full scale all the way to productions in a very controlled way. That release we did in January this year, we have also then introduced Blueprint, of course, and we are moving from Dev Studio to App Studio, but we have built a full scale case in Constellation Constellation. So Constellation portal Constellation case. We went live the 15th of April, May, May. 15th of May. 15th May. Of two weeks ago. So yeah.

So and that's worked out quite fine I would say. Yeah. Um, and also we have increased our, modules in that work as well. And so we're moving on. But I mean, how did we do it. What is it easy. Nah. Not really. I would say we started off a few years ago. We started with cleaning up the the Layer Cake that we had the app stack. We also started up with some hackathons with Don Marco. I think we've had 3 or 4 of them starting to move over to App Studio.

Um, so I think everybody should have guessed that we are moving in that direction, but it it was news when we when we came with it anyway. Um, so actually last spring we started off we did the first POC in March, and then we had a lchd workshop together with Marco Duizer and Vikram. Uh, and then we started to do some real POCs during the summer and started to actually resolve things. So that's when we came up with the plan.

We started with one Flow, where we tested out the hybrid model because we wanted to see, since we have quite a lot of applications that are existing and we don't want to have the we have many systems, we don't want the users to add another system that they're changing to. So we needed to have the feeling that you are within a system, even though we are moving the architecture. So that is why the hybrid model was so important for us. So that's how we started off.

I would say what else? We became a lighthouse member in November that was crucial for us. It's been a really, really good support in moving forward. We can also add that the Pega Academy we have used Pega Academy quite a lot to to get the team members on board. I mean, you in COE you did all these POCs and you spent quite a lot of time and then moving from, you know, COE to the product teams. That was a change.

I mean, you had the time to invest and and learn and now it's like, okay, teams go on. And so we like kind of tailored a package with different Pega Academy courses and modules for, for these guys and teams to, to start. And also in combination with the support of Center of Excellence and also the hackathons. That's how we kind of got the teams going. But it's always it's always learning by doing. So when you start, that's when the real learning kicks in.

Right? And now when we're presenting, it sounds like this was an easy journey and it went really well. It didn't. So but we're still allowed here to talk about it. So we'll come back to that. But we were live for the first app in January. Uh, upgrade to Infinity 24in March. We had second app in April, third app in May, and we have a new hybrid portal that we're planning for. So and this is Stig. He thinks we were first on the planet with this.

I'm not sure about it, but, um, we have made it possible with UIKit and Constellation because existence, we have done it with small user group. We also go for safe deliveries. We introduced Pega Insights, which was really nice. And that's the hybrid model that we're talking about. And then we had the cough release. And this is the roller coaster that I'm referring to because we really started off.

We had a team, we had a couple teams that were starting off with, we copied the workshop we had from Marco went really well and then nothing happened. So we were trying to support the teams to get started working with the data model. We were really pushing for the importance. When you go in Constellation data model is the most important thing, right? So we were really doing everything we could. And then in March we did a review and realized that the data model was correct. So what do you do? You have a release with somebody who has promised that this is going to happen. I think I put planet Earth. I thought it was universe, actually. That's what I thought. Yeah. Yeah. So what we did, we got in a real hurry. So we, uh, we had to help out from the Center of Excellence to help the team out. So we went ahead and did the task force started to build the flow. Completely new with data model with everything. New portal as well.

So there's quite a lot of work and also a lot of modules. The modules that we had before, they were designed for UI kits. We added a lot of UI in them as well. Doesn't go well with Constellation, so we need to redesign and think about how we do with modules. But that's turned out well. So what we did, we redesigned and we rebuilt the process in five weeks. Five weeks. That's. I mean, how long would it have taken otherwise? Six months. Six weeks? No, no, but. But if you compare it.

Because one of the desired effects we wanted was to move to Constellation is that we want to be able to build things faster. So was it faster? Yes, it was a lot faster, I would say. Yeah, you be the judge, but I would say faster. I mean, it's a little bit early to say for us, like, I mean, this was a really good we needed this win, I would say with Constellation to see how fast it could go. And and it's a lot of learnings from that as well. I mean, we will come back to that.

But it was, of course, a huge win for us. And also getting the user feedback that they really like the UI and they think it's better. So that's also very important. Of course that's the best feedback you can get. And then I would say being a lighthouse member helped us a lot. Yeah. We had help with the UI, UX components. Knowledge transfer. Service requests. Discovers. We're done. We have biweekly meetings with them. So very solutions focused. I think that's been a learning curve.

Really? Really good. Uh, would we say that the mission is accomplished? Yeah, I would say we have three Constellation apps live now. The UX is higher. We haven't done the measurements yet, but it looks better. I would say we're also using a lot more out of the box features from Pega. And that is that is something different that we haven't done before. And also we are working a lot with the process design.

We were mentioning Blueprint, but Blueprint is essential now when we move forward with the business to start with first receiving all the requirements, right, to collect all the requirements, what do you really need? Not what you want. We get that a lot. What you really need. What is the basic requirements to collect them, and then start working with a discovery phase together with the business, using the Blueprint to be able to visualize the processes for them.

And I think that is a really good tool and that will take us faster long. But also somewhere down the line, we need to make up our mind how the process should look. We can change it all the way back and forth, which we have a history of doing. So we need to be able to do that. So I think we're getting there with the process design, but we have a bit more work to do. Also, what I mentioned here is faster page loading.

You know when you have a screen with a lot of UI kit, it takes a little bit of time to load and this is much faster. And that is also very important for the users. Yeah, of course I mean that that you get a much better experience. You know that yourself. The faster you have an application the better it is. So this is also a big part of raising the user experience, getting faster apps. Yeah. So key takeaways. Do you want to take that one. I can start off.

So yeah this has been a learning journey for sure. And and it's always when you start something big, it's good that you don't know how much time it will take building a new house. You think it will take this amount of time. And then it took this amount of time, right? And it's been a little bit like that. But if you knew everything, when you start, you'll never start. So I think we're very happy that we we we did we took the first step out there. It was a lot of uncertainty.

We didn't really know. Even though we made the POCs, we made a hackathons and everything. It's when you dig into the real stuff that you really see how it goes, right? And we a lot of stuff popped up and coming back to the lighthouse, we had a lot of help. We needed that help. I mean, running on prem with this Constellation and also with the localization for the Swedish. It was not quite there yet, so we got a lot of help from that. So all these things made it happen.

So but it's been a much bigger change and it's not about Constellation only it's like coming from our environment and the way of working with Dev Studio, just taking that leap into App Studio and also using Blueprint more in the design phase. It's quite a big thing for us to do all that in together. But Constellation was the the driving force because we have wanted to move into App Studio for quite some time, but we didn't have that push really. But with Constellation we had to.

So that was also really, really good to use Constellation as a force to move us into App Studio. So we needed that also. I would also say that we're not talking about just now. It seems like we're just talking about the UI when it comes to Constellation. We're not. We're talking new architecture. We're talking about the Center-out architecture.

And that is also something that is new, right? So it's not that we know what we want to do, but there are a lot of people in our organization that also needs to understand what are we doing, why are we doing it? What's the purpose? What's the aim? What is the result? What is the business benefit we want to what what brings value for this business value. Yeah. Which is really important. Yes for sure.

And yeah being on prem I think like the the lighthouse meetings between January and March, they were quite intense because what we could get in there, the hotfixes and everything and also with our release schedule in Canada. But finally we, we managed to squeeze it through together and it and it worked and it was stable. But then we had some stuff after that, but we patched it together. But it's been a really good teamwork with Pega on this to to get it all the way through. I would say.

And uh, yeah, as we said, I mean, you guys were very involved from Center of Excellence, uh, doing this. And it's been a journey for the product teams going into this. I mean, looking in retrospect, we would have hoped for kind of another journey where the product teams maybe were, uh, were more there. I mean, could have spent more time training and doing the POCs, maybe themselves. So but we finally found a way around this with more support from COE.

And now we are in a much better place also with the product teams who has actually gone through the whole process. So yeah. Yeah, I think so. And I think when you're starting such a project as this was, I would say Get the super team from the beginning. Take the ones that really, really, really wants this that really aim for it. This is the only thing they want to do because you would need that.

Because this if you've worked as in Pega for 15 years, this means that everything you learned before is is gone. It's new. It's different. Right? So you must be able to relearn challenge. And when you get stuck, don't don't complain and say I'm stuck. You need to go to the Pega documentation. You need to read through. You need to I mean, there's an effort. You need to do an effort yourself because nobody can teach you this. You'll learn as you go. And that that is super important as well. Yeah. And also a big challenge for us for for the business analysts. I mean, we're coming from a very traditional way with the requirement analysis, listening to the to the users and then interpreting it to into to use cases and then handling it over to to developers. This is a completely new way of working. I mean, you're in the front seat as a business analyst. You are the designer and you have these tools at your hands.

Showing them what's possible and also sometimes also being a little bit tough and saying, this is what we can do. You cannot do this. This is what you get. And that's, that's that's still a journey for us to to, you know, get up on that level with our base. And we are on a good journey, I would say. But this is also has been a really big change for us that we really didn't anticipate until we saw it. Yeah.

And also, I mean, we started off with saying, okay, so so you're a BA, you need to work in the App Studio. It's just that everybody needs to work in App Studio. It's not just the base, it's the it's the it's the essays. Everybody needs to learn. App Studio. Yeah. Um, because we're moving in that direction. Yeah. And that's a it's a new way. Yeah. I would say. Yeah. And the last one I mean it's kind of a cliche, but of course the teamwork, it's the team that makes it happen.

This has been a huge team effort with the product teams, with Center of Excellence, with our platform team making everything happen in the end, but very goal orientated. Laser focus on getting it done and helping out. Yeah. So moving forward, Johanna, what's up for us? Well, we need to onboard more teams. More team people needs to be on board on this journey that we're on because we we haven't decided that Constellation we're not going for it. We're going for it, and we're going for it more.

So we need to continue with it. Um, and we need to make the VA and SA coexistence in App Studio to understand that you work together. That's a big thing. That means that you could communicate together and maybe sit together. So that's a big thing. Um, and I also think we need to be better on the business side of with the Blueprint design. So the business some somewhere down the line, we need to make a decision. This is what we're doing, and this is what we're building now.

And we're not changing it tomorrow. But we need to build for. We need to think when we build. So we build for change. We build for configuration. So that's easy to to configure it when something changes. Yeah. And now we also have Blueprint. We're just listening yesterday and today and see how Blueprint expands and how much more you can do with Blueprint.

That is also something that we need to take into consideration that really affects the way we're working, and how much more we can do at an early phase of the development process. So that is also just finding the right mix. How to use Blueprint want to move over to App Studio and then scale it up in development and so forth.

So, so finding that way of working together with the product teams and center of excellence will be something that we now that we have done this, the first round of Constellation, we need to sit down and like reevaluate some stuff and then take new speed ahead. Yeah. And also some other things change, right? We we used to do upgrades because we needed service agreements. Right now we need functionalities, which means that if you ask the COE how often do we want to upgrade? As soon as possible.

Right. And we have a huge UI kit installation. You don't do a simple, easy upgrade whenever we want for the whole platform. So we need to think about where solutions around that that we need to consider. So it will impact our infrastructure as well. So that are things that we are considering. Yeah it is And of course our managers. They are key players in this. The team managers, they also need to understand and also own the process for how the teams should work.

They need to really invest in understanding also the tools and what like Blueprint brings to the table for us to be a good change manager. So that is also something that we really take into consideration moving forward, getting the team managers on board in this. So yeah, so when when we release our next Constellation app, did I hear five weeks or. I think we're going for one now in June. Right. It is. Yeah I think so. Let's hear one one little thing in CRM. Yep June I think. Yeah.

Otherwise we are I would say maybe maybe August release. But I would say big one. Be careful. Now everything is recorded. But I say since I'm not doing it, I'm saying maybe. Giving out promises for other people. No, I don't make promises for other people. So. But but I would say that we have three, four, five bigger initiatives that are starting up. Yeah. So we're starting the analysis for the summer. So I think we have a lot. I think we have a pretty nice lineup coming up.

I think we have been overcommitting a little bit. Um, but now we have Blueprint. We have some really big initiatives coming up. And one of them is regarding the control like fraud investigations. So we're talking about maybe BGP investigation cases. We have the BGP Pega Government Platform. Maybe we should use it. Maybe not. I don't know. So that is something we will look into. We also have we have extended controls with the municipalities regarding education for Corona people.

So there's a lot of things coming up. It is here it is. So actually came up with a great idea. I really like these drum bots, and I think we should bring them home because I think we need them to keep up the pace. Yeah. So yeah, at least four of them are coming with us home to Stockholm. Yeah, I hope that's okay. And I think that pretty much sums it up for now. And and we'll have time for questions. Yeah. And we also have some people here that actually know something. They're technical.

They're not just management people and pose. Yeah. So so if you have some really hard questions we have the people to answer it. Okay. Let me start over here. Go ahead. Hi I'm Satish, I'm from Charter Communications and we're also starting the journey from cosmos to Constellation migration. Um, I'm just curious to know, uh, you talked about, like, uh, you had a lot of customization.

We're using less out of the box features, but once you move to Constellation, what was the use of feedback like? Were they able to adapt to that new type of user experience? Yeah. I would say that is the least problem. The users. They get it, they see it, it's working. But if you're asking whether the other teams thinks that the team that the users can accept it. No, we need to specialize. I mean, we have such a I mean, culture of everything. The business says they need to have it.

But I mean, when they got it out now, uh, there are some other things we could have done better. There always is. But the basic out-of-the-box functionalities was the least problem, I would say. So I think we need to dare to do it simple and not try to make it too big, too complex from the beginning. Because when we do it without user feedback, then we're making too much out of it. I mean, they're asking for maybe we are trying to give them 80%, and in the end, 65% would have been enough.

So I think you need to work with enough. Not not perfect enough. Yeah. Great question. Thank you. Yeah. My name is Mark. I'm from a German government organization. So something maybe we have similar challenges and a question. You told us that you have different teams. Platform team, SEO team and product team. And, uh, how did you start at the beginning? Did you had this structure from the beginning on or did this evolve? Was this a process, a learning? Maybe you could explain it in detail.

Thank you. Yeah. Should I start? Yeah, you should start. I was there, Okay. Yeah. I'm guilty. I'm guilty. Yeah, I stopped, I stopped. Yeah, but now we started off gradually. Yeah. And we had like we started off with the product teams and of course we had this small Platform team at that time. But we were very eager to get stuff out there.

I think we launched the first app in six months after we, we installed Pega and so, so we were very focused on delivering value out there to our end users, which also meant, but we didn't have a COE at that time. We had architects for sure, but we were very focused on the specific functions to the end users. So there were not that much reusability mindset or like an overall architecture that that governed the whole like development process.

So that we catch we have been catching up, you know, and we I think we're on the third generation of Center of Excellence. I think it was new Jersey City. Yesterday afternoon they had the same thing that you always have to, you know, evolve all the center of excellence as well. And we have done that three times now to. Yeah, all the time try to to have the best fit and be in the, in the right position. But we have we have scaled gradually I would say. Yeah. Thank you. All right. Thank you.

But I just want to add one thing because here. Comes the right answer. Okay. No, but I think I think it's quite essential to have a platform team quite early on. If I would restart, I would start a platform team quite early on to be able to get set the process on how you want to do deliveries, what kind of technologies do you want to have, and also get the structure up there from the beginning. Also think about the main modules that you need.

Uh, we started with the team that discovers it will build it. That was not the best idea. So I would start with identifying Fighting the big ones, the things that you really, really need and also get the infra up and running because you need your own infra people, right. So you're not depending on some other teams or something. So you need some dedicated Pega Platform people I would say. So I would start with that.

Doesn't it have to be really big? But I think I would do it and absolutely start looking at the requirements for the big modules. I mean, the great APIs, the things that you must have and do it from a technical point of view and then add the business aspect of it as well. But I don't know if you want to add something. Marco, you're nodding here. Yeah. I don't know if Mike here, but um, yeah.

What we see here with the start is that it's important your co team basically let them do the first project. Don't let them be the theoretical people that in theory knows how it works. But they did the first one so they practically know how it works. And that will really help you. So COE team is basically the first one. Deliver the first one. They did it. They made the sample app and then they can start guiding basically. Also your other team.

So that's also for me an important thing to start with that get out of the theory and basically get it really practical so that they also make that change in the mind, like 15 years experience in doing something that's completely different than you did in Nadal. Basically, you can throw away part of it. So they need to experience the new parts so that they can guide basically the new teams doing it. Yeah. Thank you, thank you. Yes.

Before I have my question, my compliments for this impressive effort. And there's much more behind what we have been reading. My question is more, can you elaborate a little bit more on the change management that you applied for your role based Change Manager on the BA and the IT side? I'm absolutely interested in that. How did you change their mindsets? Yeah Okay. Yeah. Okay. I got it. Yeah. No. I would say going back to it, it's very individual, right.

So you need to go back to the individuals because some people are early adopters by nature. It's much easier. So if you are an early adopter and you get something new thrown at you, you're running right. I'm one of those. I like to run for new things, at least not running in real life. So I think it it depends on the person. Very much so. So I think it's hard for somebody who's who isn't that interested in changing or very confident in. This is the way we work. This is how I know it.

That person you shouldn't start with, you should start with the ones that really want it. And that's a mistake we did. You really need to take the early adopters and work with them and set an example before you move into the people that are more questioning why, Why should we do this? And so on? I don't know. Because we can train them. We are doing training programs and everything right now, but I don't think that would have helped. Because you need the curiosity. You need the drive.

Yeah, I would say so too. So finding the. Yeah, the change leaders and the guys and girls who really want to do this and are really, really interested in putting in the extra effort and the extra time because that's needed to, to do this. So that will give you, I think, a better head start doing it. And but then also having the the support from Center of Excellence. And also if you want it from, from your partners as well to. Yeah set the basics around this.

And as always you know think big, start small, start with a less complicated applications and to get something out there, then scale up the complexity as you go. Yeah. Hi, my name is Mahesh Thomas. I'm with the AIG. We have a long standing relationship with Pega. That also means that we have all the applications in older versions we upgrade them. But many a times the UI you know, is not the focus. So now we are, you know, you know, in that journey of, you know, getting into Constellation.

And I would like to know some practical challenges from a technical perspective that you have, uh, had, you know, with the hybrid model of UI and. Yeah. Okay. Now we're bringing in Niklas. Yeah. This also have a question jotting. Down questions around this. So also in. Chat. Right. So I was also wondering if it was a complete redesign and remodeling in Constellation.

Or do you have a hybrid model where your old components coexisted along with the new components? Yeah, we started with our first release. That was the employee check. And uh, we went with the hybrid model because we didn't have time to build in Constellation from scratch. So we went ahead with blended UI.

So we had a Constellation portal, and we did the traditional mash up of the UI kit, and it required some challenges because we had built in a certain way, which did not work initially, and we asked for some help from lighthouse. We asked SRS, but one fine day it started working with some hacks, which we had done before in the UI kit. We had done a lot of customization, so we removed those customization and then followed the guidelines and the steps, and we managed to do the blended UI.

So there were little challenges, but if you want, we can meet after the meeting and then discuss those things. That'd be lovely. Yeah. We have some deep rooted problems with customizations and stuff. So yeah. And that is one of the thing you while you build in UI kit, you don't know what customization you are doing, but when you are doing in Constellation, you have to make sure that it's out of the box, otherwise your changes will not work. And this was not easy.

It took a lot of time to identify those things, but now we are in the process. And now our Johan and Stig mentioned that we are going with some future releases. Our Big Bang releases coming up, maybe in the autumn, where we want to move all our UI kit case ID into Constellation, which will be a single unified portal for the caseworkers. Thank you. But that hybrid to mention that we're not moving all our existing applications into Constellation.

We are keeping the ones that we have in the UI kit, but we want to be able to have a coexistence in a portal for the caseworkers. Gradual transition. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. I think we have time for one last question here from the side. Nope. Yes. Hello. My name is Oscar, and I work for the Sweden government offices. And I've been with your before, so I know a lot about your project. So I was just wondering.

I know that in Sweden, for our government agencies, we have some problems moving into Cloud right now. And I was just wondering, do you have a plan B to go to the container solution with Kubernetes or what's your way forward there? Upgrades are is an issue for us right now. We need to go to container. We have a plan. I think we will do that during the autumn or something like that. Yeah, yeah. So that is one of the issues. Yeah. So in order to get the latest feature, we cannot be on prem.

So we will go to the containerized platform. We are still finalizing which Kubernetes to use, but I think we have finalized and are more or less finalized. So we are doing a POC once the results will be uh what we want. So we will we want to go to 24 .2.2 in autumn and then start moving into Constellation. I'm glad to hear that you're staying on the latest release. So yeah. Thank you. That is one of the challenge with Constellation. We want to be latest and want to.

But as you mentioned, our upgrades are a little bit tricky because of the UIKit. But when we move to Constellation, I think it will be easier to be latest and follow the Pega release patch cycle release cycle. Yeah. Well, one last question here.

Can I add something that I see with a lot of clients and everybody gets almost same question is one strategy that, um, if you're going to do this and you have your existing apps on UIKit and normally it takes six months, right, to migrate to the new version in Constellation. We do it in two days, and you don't want to be stopped by the other one. So if you start doing it, if you start working with Constellation, set up a new app stack and call that your FastTrack.

Everything that you build new in Constellation, you put it on there and that's basically keeping current. And then the other ones can still go in a slower pace, but they're not holding back your Constellation projects where you need the latest release. So if you start something new, put a new app stack there, put your Constellation apps there, Let them be upgraded and not be stopped by your traditional apps. That really helps you to move quickly forward and be successful with Constellation.

Yeah. I think we had one last question there. Thank you for taking my question. Um, actually, I'm from India. I'm I'm Hindu, I'm from AIG. Um, following my colleagues, like, um, he was asking for the technical challenges. Um, but I just wanted to get the strategy. Um, what's your strategy with the business? Right. Getting their buy in and getting their commitment right with this project, like upgrading the UI, what business values that you were able to kind of.

Did we even tell the business that we were doing this? I think that was the strategy, actually. Yeah. Well, that's the fact. If you don't tell them, they don't know and then. They. They're still happy. Maybe I'll follow that too. No, really, we didn't tell them the first. We didn't tell them. They told them you get something new. And they were like, yeah, okay. Well it worked. Yes, it will work. It will be better. Yeah. So. Okay. Good. Yeah. There's one other question.

You had mentioned that there was improved page loading. Like, you know, like performance was good. Is there any way that you can just kind of give a hint on like how much was the improvement with the page loading? Yeah, page loading is much faster. I would say, uh, we have tested a lot with accessibility, with different tools because we have people that work at the agency that have it that is way better. I mean, we had to be ashamed before. This is working really nicely.

So that is some things that are really good for us. Okay. Good. That will be a pitch for us. Yeah. And then don't tell the business. Just go. Yes. And then they'll be happy. Thank you. Yeah. Okay. Thank you everyone..